MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
Last night in our “Political Buzz” segment, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who is running for president, accused some in the United States Congress of attempting to criminalize abortions, in other words, put women in prison who’ve had abortions.
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MATTHEWS: Congressman Chris Smith represents the 4th District of New Jersey. He joins us now.
Congressman Smith, do you believe in putting women in prison for having abortions?
REP. CHRIS SMITH R, NEW JERSEY: Absolutely not. That was a very irresponsible and a presumptuous statement on the part of Mr. Kucinich. He’s dead wrong.
Legislation including the partial-birth abortion which is making its way through Congress and all of the previous bills that have gone forward, some of which were vetoed by Bill Clinton, have an explicit piece of language in there that says no woman will be prosecuted under this act.
That is the intent of what we tried to do with all of our legislation and even pre-Roe v. Wade.
MATTHEWS: What is your thinking behind that?
SMITH: Without a doubt, we believe and I believe in pro-life woman believes that these women are co-victims with the babies. The baby has an act of violence on him or her. Physical dismemberment or poisoning by harsh chemicals.
MATTHEWS: Sure.
SMITH: But the mother carries incredible psychological consequences.
And as a matter of fact, I’m part of and recently hosted on Capitol Hill a Silent No More campaign. This is a group of women who have had abortions who are trying to tell others that there’s an enormous pain that they carry. They’re co-victims.
And like I said, the proof is in the legislation. It clearly states something as horrific as partial-birth abortion, where the baby is partially delivered and then his or her brains are sucked out, there’s a protection that the woman will not be...
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MATTHEWS: Is there any other member of Congress, man or woman, Democrat or Republican, who advocates jailing women for abortion?
SMITH: I know of absolutely no one.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about-just a point here. We only have 30 seconds.
Why is it important to put the doctor in prison or finding him heavily or her heavily when they’re operating as an agent of a woman who seeks an abortion? And in most cases, when you ask somebody to do it, you’re the principal. Why in this case would a woman not be-should not be subject to penalization?
SMITH: Again, very often, women are under enormous pressure to have an abortion. They may be frightened. They’re very vulnerable.
The physician, if you want to call him that, the abortionist, should know better. He’s the one who has to go in there and dismember or chemically poison an unborn child. And in the past, prior to Roe, that’s who was the subject of sanctions.
You know, we have a sanction right now. If you kill a bald eagle, you get a year in prison. Kill a second bald eagle, you get five years. Partial birth abortion, we’re saying two years.
MATTHEWS: That’s the bottom line, that women shouldn’t go to jail for having abortions?
SMITH: Exactly right.
MATTHEWS: Thank you very much. Congressman Chris Smith from New Jersey